Curse

Kiki Go Boom · Jul 24, 2011, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Hi all,

Since the recent update that was supposed to fix the turtle from getting stuck didn't work, I thought I'd go and do some experimenting on what exactly causes the turtle to get stuck and whether it can be reproduced for Anet to be able to fix it.

There’s possibly many different ways in which the turtle gets stuck but I think I have definately found one way in doing so, and it’s got nothing to do with the turtle; It’s the warriors!

I experimented a bit on the Purple Turtle and found that, if the luxon warriors move AHEAD of the turtle (due to being aggro’d) and then later proceed to return to the turtle, they get stuck at the turtle. As a result, the warriors are body-blocking the turtle and that’s why the turtle gets stuck. From what I’ve seen, it seems that the location the warriors are trying to get to is behind the turtle but the turtle is blocking them.

A way to release the turtle from it’s stuck position is to agro onto it (I found most success with aggroing onto it from behind but I don’t think it matters) and the body blocking warriors will agro onto you and therefore, free the turtle.

However, this method isn't so simple. My guess is that it may has something to do with the turtle’s pathing and the warriors colliding straight on with the turtle’s path. For example, I found that if the warriors return to the turtle at an angle to the turtle’s path, it won’t get stuck but if the warriors are directly on the turtle’s path when they collide, they get stuck.

Today, I was successfully able to get the purple turtle stuck near the portal outside the green gate. All I did was stand INFRONT of the turtle and let the warriors move INFRONT of the turtle and kill me. Once I died, the warriors moved back and the turtle got stuck. It was very obvious that it was stuck because the orange turtle that was right next to it proceeded closer to the green gate while the purple turtle stayed still. After I rezzed, I went straight out the portal and immediately grabbed aggro of the purple turtle. The warriors came towards me but this time going BEHIND the turtle. I died and the turtle was free and started moving forward to join the orange turtle at the green gate.

Here are some screenshots of me getting the purple turtle stuck on a separate occasion:

As you can see in the above screenshots, I confront the turtle directly on it's path and get the luxon warriors to approach me directly on the turtle's path aswell.

After I rez, I walk out through the portal and the turtle is obviously stuck.
The following screenshots show me unstucking the very same turtle that I got stuck.

The luxon warriors are not on the turtle's path now. The turtle is free!!

There you have it! The turtle has been unstuck and is continuing on it's intended path.

There are probably many different factors and methods to get the turtle stuck but I have been able to succesfully get the purple turtle stuck many times now. This method heavily depends on where you position yourself. You have to be directly on the turtles path and so do the warriors. If you are even slightly off or the warriors do not approach you on the turtle's path, it won't get stuck. I think that's why the turtle gets stuck so many times at the gates; because the warriors move ahead to attack the gate npcs' and get themselves directly on the turtles path.

Now that we have found one way to get the turtle stuck and can reproduce this bug, Anet can finally fix it!!! yay!

Hopefully this is news to most of you. Sorry if someone has already figured it out.

Songbringer · Jul 25, 2011, 02:17 AM // 02:17

While I found this interesting to me it seems more like a guide on how to screw the luxons over lol. Hope no 1 uses this info to have an unfair advantage.

Kiki Go Boom · Jul 25, 2011, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Yes, I dearly hope that no one decides to exploit this. I just thought that it would be beneficial for the community to know exactly how the turtle is getting stuck since we've been wondering for so long. I've already sent all this to Anet so hopefully they can get it fixed as fast as possible.

Star_Jewel · Jul 25, 2011, 03:14 AM // 03:14

I see this applies to sticking the turtle once it's already started on its path. I don't FA much, but when I did I most often noticed the turtle getting stuck at its spawn point. Talk to the commander, but the turtle wouldn't move. Have they since fixed that and now stuck turtles only occur once in motion or...? If the turtle still sticks in its spawn place, does the above-cited glitch apply to that as well, or are they two different glitches?

Bah: tl;dr -- Does this have any effect on freshly-spawned turtles?

Kiki Go Boom · Jul 25, 2011, 03:45 AM // 03:45

I'm not sure whether the commander not releasing the turtle has been fixed or not. As I mentioned in the OP, there are many ways the turtle can get stuck and the commander not releasing it is a completely different bug to the one I've investigated.

From what I've learnt, this bug only applies to once the turtle is in motion. I haven't tried the orange turtle yet but I assume this bug can be reproduced on it aswell. I must first track the turtle's path.

Chocolate_Prayers · Jul 25, 2011, 03:45 AM // 03:45

I could see many people abusing this even more now.. Also, there are occasions when turtles get stuck once the warriors have been long dead. Not entirely certain how it happens since I tend not to play on Kurzick too much these days, but it does happen an awful lot..

mathiastemplar · Jul 25, 2011, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocolate_Prayers

I could see many people abusing this even more now...

More reason for Anet to fix it properly.

Kiki Go Boom · Jul 25, 2011, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocolate_Prayers

I could see many people abusing this even more now.. Also, there are occasions when turtles get stuck once the warriors have been long dead. Not entirely certain how it happens since I tend not to play on Kurzick too much these days, but it does happen an awful lot..

I've never seen that happen before.

Is there a particular point on the map that this happens?

Maybe it doesn't have to be a luxon warrior that collides into the turtle??? I shall find out.

Spiritz · Jul 25, 2011, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Tbh any info on how to get turles stuck would be best sent on to anet for them to fix - its not that often that anet will trawl thru guru looking for problems tho a few anet staff do visit the game bugs section - and posting on here may cause some players to purposely exploit the bug

makosi · Jul 25, 2011, 08:58 AM // 08:58

I've been saying that the warriors block the turtles for months!

Regardless of the size of any unit (NPC/player etc) they still have collision. The solution, from my skewed brain, is to have the warriors regroup behind the turtle instead of encircling it.

The Luxon players' 'solution' for this bug was to lure some Kurzicks near the turtle to draw the warriors away and hope that they regroup in such a way that they are not body blocking the turtle. At which point the turtle may or may not proceed depending on luck.

Kiki Go Boom · Jul 25, 2011, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Regardless of the size of any unit (NPC/player etc) they still have collision. The solution, from my skewed brain, is to have the warriors regroup behind the turtle instead of encircling it.

They already are regrouping behind the turtle. That's why they run into the turtle all the time - because they're trying to get behind it.

A possible solution to this would be to change the default location of the luxon warriors in relation to the turtle. Instead of having all 4 of them regroup behind the turtle, maybe they regroup infront of the turtle? This way, whenever they regroup, they will never be colliding into the turtle at an opposite direction to it's path.

FoxBat · Jul 25, 2011, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Post this on the official support forums if you haven't, Anet actually reads over there.

makosi · Jul 25, 2011, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Now the Luxon Warriors are becoming stuck; they stand idle on occasion even when there's aggro. New turtles won't spawn until all of their Luxon Warriors die.

Oh well. Maybe some day.

Kiki Go Boom · Jul 25, 2011, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Post this on the official support forums if you haven't, Anet actually reads over there.

Way ahead of you.

Ka Tet · Jul 26, 2011, 04:09 AM // 04:09

What's great is that not only will it take Anet at least a year to do anything with this info, but now anyone who didn't know how to /turtlestuck, can do it with ease.

Reverend Dr · Jul 26, 2011, 05:30 AM // 05:30

/turtlestuck should be bindable to a key and not just accessible through the command line.

Apok · Jul 26, 2011, 06:23 AM // 06:23

After 5 years of this arena being open to the public, people are just now figuring out that NPCs bodyblock each other?

I'm sorry, I'm finding this hard to believe.

Great for making this public, but collision detection should be priority number one to look for in situations with AI getting stuck. Not a bug, not aggro, not even a hack. Collision Detection.

Kiki Go Boom · Jul 26, 2011, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

After 5 years of this arena being open to the public, people are just now figuring out that NPCs bodyblock each other?

I'm sorry, I'm finding this hard to believe.

Great for making this public, but collision detection should be priority number one to look for in situations with AI getting stuck. Not a bug, not aggro, not even a hack. Collision Detection.

If I remember correctly, the turtle's only started getting stuck after an update about 1-2 years ago.

Also, they aren't actually body blocking each other. Something crazy must be happening when they collide though.

Abedeus · Jul 26, 2011, 09:09 AM // 09:09

My bet is on poor programming.

Turtles have a line they follow.

They detect something directly on their line, they refuse to take same space as the thing blocking them.

It's like the old point and click games, where you moved on rails, and you couldn't move until you killed everything/they killed you.

mage767 · Jul 26, 2011, 11:33 AM // 11:33

I was in FA (playing Luxon) the other day and this turtle stuck business happened multiple times - I was so frustrated that I simply gave up. Seriously, they need to test their "updates" carefully...this latest update actually screwed the Luxons even more.